-g
On 12/17/08 5:02 PM, "Michael Grove" <michaelgrove@yahoo.com> wrote:
Excellent discussion thread. To some extent it feels like the hammer looking for the nail. We have a menu of CC services, how do they fit? From my non IT perspective it all starts with enterprise and their need to better serve their customers. Most of us agree that future winners are those who are more agile and more virtual with their customers and suppliers. Being able understand the right processes, adopt them and eliminate those that don't add value is a key enabling focus. This then describes what folks/systems needed to do. Then comes the how.
The way I see it, IT orgs are not funded nor equipped to create this transformation, but they can manage it. For example, what if IT enabled the BUs to build many of their own web apps with IT's approval, processes, and control? This would relieve tention between IT and the BUs, increase innovation, and adaptability. There are platforms available to allow knowledge workers to create web apps without being a developer. By collaborating among enterprises, these kinds of applications can shared, traded, sold among the participating community producing a "long tail" network effect. These kinds of apps are natural fits for CC. (nails to hammer).
This seems to be a natural beachhead that ties CC into the IT architecture. Once established, then others means of optimizing resources can evolve. What do you think? Could this "Extended IT" approach be the killer app of CC? Any interest in define an Extended IT collaborative project?
Michael Grove
650-346-8059(M)
michael.grove@collabworks.com
www.collabworks.com
--- On Wed, 12/17/08, gaberger <gaberger@cisco.com> wrote:
From: gaberger <gaberger@cisco.com>
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: PaaS vs IaaS
To: cloud-computing@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 12:36 PM
Re: [ Cloud Computing ] PaaS vs IaaS All I have to say is “Azure”. If you look at the business model you will see that PaaS (in all its incarnations ) will develop into a number of common frameworks able to work together as easy as .NET, Java or Python. This will unleash the power of scalability never seen before.
My .02
-g
On 12/17/08 2:51 PM, "Ricky Ho" <rickyphyllis@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have some doubt about how far PaaS can go. Here is why ...
The core value of PaaS is the set of "higher level" services with extremely high scalability that the cloud vendor provides. However, there is substantial amount of risks associated to its users.
Your application is locked in a proprietary API and so it depends on the vendor's support. Imagine the situation that you build your apps on Google App Engine, or Saleforce's Force platform. And one day, they decide to focus in other business (remember that cloud computing hasn't brought major revenue stream to any of these provider companies). What are you going to do with your poor application which can't even be run in somewhere else ?
How about waiting our industry to come up with an cloud API standard ? Not mentioning it will take years to get to that point. When that has happened, I bet there will be a whole bunch of open source implementation to choose from. So instead of using the PaaS plaform, why don't you just use IaaS and run whatever software stack you like on top of it. Think about the situation if you are building your app on Amazon AWS, you pick the appropriate software stack (e.g. HBase will provide you with the equivalent storage service of Google App Engine). This way you have more choices on what API you like to bind to. Now, when Amazon decide to move out from their cloud business, you can move the application back to your inhouse environment and everything will continues to run as before.
In fact, one of the reason why IaaS usage mode is gaining much wider acceptance than PaaS is because existing applications doesn't need to be rewritten before they can be run in the cloud. IaaS provides a low barrier entry for users to get some hands on cloud experience. But PaaS requires a complete application rewrite, which is much harder to commit.
However, IaaS is not without its problem. For example, in the Amazon aws case, there are some technical issues which need to be resolved. For those who are interested, I put some technical issues of Amazon AWS here at: http://horicky.blogspot.com/2008/11/amazon-web-services.html
Rgds,
Ricky
From: Shane Brauner <shane.brauner@gmail.com>
To: cloud-computing@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 10:44:29 AM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Will Cloud Displace Internal IT Services For Data Centers?
In current incarnations, your major cloud options are mainly IaaS - you get virtualized hardware just like a colo. It's at the next levels up where you're going to start seeing more inroads into internal IT.
I'm coming at this from the Infrastructure / Platform / Software tri-cloud perspective. At the platform layer, you no longer need to concern yourself with any of the OS/Hardware/VM management, configuration, or administration. You focus on your code, and forget about the machines. That's going to have a big impact on internal IT.
Granted - clearly not every application is suited for this. But it's a changing world. There are aspects of business for which this is a great fit and they'll be early adopters. This will spur development of more features and functionality which will in turn allow for adoption by a broader market. It's a feedback loop.
Shane
--
Shane Brauner
http://www.10gen.com/
http://twitter.com/shanebrauner
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Ricky Ho <rickyphyllis@yahoo.com> wrote:
Right ! Large enterprise is unlikely to displace their internal IT with Cloud computing.
However, they will use Cloud Computing in 2 specific ways, which is described here ...
http://horicky.blogspot.com/2008/12/does-cloud-computing-make-sense-for.html
Large enterprises requires a new suite of "management / middleware" technology which enable their applications to work in a hybrid environment (a mix of public + private cloud). Also note that the cost dynamics in public and private cloud is very different. The technology should include a cost-aware scheduler that can deploy the application components in the most cost effective way.
Rgds,
Ricky
From: "Pietrasanta, Mark" <Mark.Pietrasanta@aquilent.com>
To: "cloud-computing@googlegroups.com" <cloud-computing@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 6:32:11 AM
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Gartner: Will Cloud Displace Internal IT Services For Data Centers?
But again, it seems like people are missing the point:
1) Cloud Computing, at least in any of its current and pending forms, does almost nothing to reduce my internal IT staffing needs. It's no better than Co-Lo in terms of IT staffing requirements;
2) CC is more expensive than *any* of the alternatives, except in fringe cases (e.g. those with extremely volatile volume changes, and academic/research/"super computing" needs)
CC can't possibly replace internal IT services until CC *offers* some form of IT services. And the costs have to come way way down before it becomes a realistic alternative to Co-Lo (or for the small business, setting up a machine under their desk and hiring a college kid to manage it).
From: cloud-computing@googlegroups.com [mailto:cloud-computing@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krishna Kurapati
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 9:18 AM
To: cloud-computing@googlegroups.com
Subject: [ Cloud Computing ] Re: Gartner: Will Cloud Displace Internal IT Services For Data Centers?
My View:
It also depends on size of organization. For SMBs, Core applications as well as non-core applications (if any) will shift to Cloud/SaaS model.
And with recent financial turmoil, many large companies became medium and medium became small :)
Any organization adopting cloud would be security/compliance, availability/accessibility.
and portability/migratability.
These requirements overweigh cost advantages depending on the vertical they play into.
Krishna Kurapati
Cloud Ventures
On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 3:37 AM, nagarajansankar@gmail.com <nagarajansankar@gmail.com> wrote:
Here is an interesting article that appeared yesterday.
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2008/12/gartner_will_cl.html?catid=cloud-computing
My take is that possibly Non-mission critical or Non- revenue
generating applications (the so called departmental applications) in
enterprises that may form about 20 to 25% of the total IT
infrastructure and services may find their way to the clouds..
Do share your thoughts...
- Sankar
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nsk007
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