Thursday, July 10, 2008

Re: EC2 alternatives

> > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Michael Sheehan
> > <mich...@servepath.com> wrote:
> > Microsoft holds the service provider (not the customer) accountable
> > for making sure the proper licenses have been purchased.
>

Interesting... If I rent a dedicated server, from say, ServePath, does
that mean I cannot install my own Windows (how's that different from a
VMware VM)? Does that change if I brought my own server in ColoServe
and have my own Windows pre-installed? If I lease the server from Dell
instead of purchasing it?

> Microsoft should really fix these kinds of issues.

Yes.

>Randy:
>
> Yes, it's a mess, which also means an opportunity for people who can
> help to solve it. A non-trivial task on Windows.
>
Yes, agree on all 3 counts.

At least, VMware (I think they forced the issue) did a good job in
getting Microsoft to recognize that VMs exist (before Microsoft offers
their own) and offer per-VM license. Of course, it is not simple. For
anyone who cares -- deeply or just for fun -- check out Microsoft's
calculator at
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/calculator.mspx

-- Peter

Peter Nickolov, Founder, 3Tera
www.3tera.com

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Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

I believe there is a class of problems for which cloud computing is
useful. As Mark pointed out they are the class of problems for which the
data has a lesser value than the computed result (think of protein
folding, SETI, etc). There are a set of problems for which cloud
computing might have some value if it were not for the higher risk
involved in releasing the data to the cloud. These companies (people)
will probably never use cloud computing (in the traditional way).


Chuck


Sal Magnone wrote:
>
> Really?
>
>
>
> We put our money in a bank. Our stock certificates are held by a third
> party. We send our legal documents to Iron Mountain.
>
>
>
> The point is, none of these options were popular until the right
> safeguards were put in place, like the FDIC. Eventually reasonable
> security will be assured, competition and easy switching will become
> available, the initial technical kinks will be beat, and people will
> become comfortable with the choices.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, if the economic efficiency of the cloud exceeds the
> economic efficiency of in-house computing at existing companies they
> will eventually switch. Almost all companies hit some point in their
> growth were they scratch for savings. Later it becomes a competitive
> advantage. Startups will start on the cloud when they can't afford
> any other way to get going, and again, later that will be a
> competitive advantage that will force others to adopt the model.
>
>
>
> To use a familiar pop culture reference: This line of thinking reminds
> me of a "Star Trek: The Voyage Home" moment. Remember the scene in the
> hospital elevator with Doctor McCoy :)
>
>
>
> I'm really interested in knowing what you think about this.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> /Sal
>
>
>
> Sal Magnone
>
> +1 646 269 5648
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Ray,

I did no such thing. Nor do I believe in absolutism. Instead what I am
saying is that not all solutions make sense in the cloud - just because
you can doesn't mean you should.

Chuck Wegrzyn

Ray Nugent wrote:
> Bill, you're right, there certainly are - proof positive that there
> are no absolutes :-) While Chuck has characterized folks comfortable
> with putting their data in the cloud as "fools" that's based on his
> version of absolutism - his point of reference. Any discussion here
> that things are absolutely one way or the other is pretty much
> useless. (which means we'll probably get to the 400 post mark :-)
> However, having all the data points about the varying degrees of
> adoption IS useful for folks trying to make a living in this space.
>
> It might be helpful to talk about the businesses that are looking at
> this and the ones that have high aversion to it so we can map out
> where the market adoption is right now and where it might go.
>
> Just my 2 cents
>
> Ray

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Oh that is certainly not true! While it is possible that all the
systems will be equally compromised, it isn't the only possibility. I
can just as well build a single system out of thousands that will be hacked.

Chuck

Sassa NF wrote:
> Define a metric for "secure".
>
> More opportunities to be compromised? Maybe. But better chances of
> success?.. That may be true only for non-homogenous systems, and on
> certain conditions. In a *homogenous* system every component perhaps
> has the same probability of successful compromise. Having N replicas
> of the database with exactly the same probability P of compromise does
> not change the chances of compromise (N*(1/N)*P, which is "N" times
> the probability that the particular replica was chosen multiplied by
> the probability of success). It is fair to assume that in a homogenous
> system the probability of attack is distributed uniformly (1/N).
>
> For the messages in transit to N destinations to be significantly
> easier to compromise than one, N must be really large, if we were to
> consider analysis of multiple encryptions of the same message.
>
>
> Sassa

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Really?

We put our money in a bank. Our stock certificates are held by a third party. We send our legal documents to Iron Mountain.

The point is, none of these options were popular until the right safeguards were put in place, like the FDIC. Eventually reasonable security will be assured, competition and easy switching will become available, the initial technical kinks will be beat, and people will become comfortable with the choices.

Furthermore, if the economic efficiency of the cloud exceeds the economic efficiency of in-house computing at existing companies they will eventually switch. Almost all companies hit some point in their growth were they scratch for savings. Later it becomes a competitive advantage. Startups will start on the cloud when they can't afford any other way to get going, and again, later that will be a competitive advantage that will force others to adopt the model.

To use a familiar pop culture reference: This line of thinking reminds me of a "Star Trek: The Voyage Home" moment. Remember the scene in the hospital elevator with Doctor McCoy :)

I'm really interested in knowing what you think about this.


Thanks,

/Sal

Sal Magnone

+1 646 269 5648


Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Bill, you're right, there certainly are - proof positive that there are no absolutes :-) While Chuck has characterized folks comfortable with putting their data in the cloud as "fools" that's based on his version of absolutism - his point of reference. Any discussion here that things are absolutely one way or the other is pretty much useless. (which means we'll probably get to the 400 post mark :-)
However, having all the data points about the varying degrees of adoption IS useful for folks trying to make a living in this space.

It might be helpful to talk about the businesses that are looking at this and the ones that have high aversion to it so we can map out where the market adoption is right now and where it might go.

Just my 2 cents

Ray


----- Original Message ----
From: "Barr, Bill"
To: cloud-computing@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:19:57 AM
Subject: RE: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining


Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who:

1) Can't work from home

2) Won't work evenings

3) Don't work weekends

Not to mention all of those non-salaried employees who would need to be paid overtime for extra hours in the evening and on weekends.

Re: EC2 alternatives

On Jul 9, 2008, at 10:26 PM, Chris Sears wrote:
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Michael Sheehan wrote:
How do you see it as being unenforceable?

Microsoft holds the service provider (not the customer) accountable for making sure the proper licenses have been purchased. Bring your own license is basicly the honor system. How could Amazon make sure cusomters weren't using stolen/pirated/warez CD keys? It couldn't without checking each Windows OS image before it started it up and even then there's no way for Amazon to know if a CD key is legit or not.

There are ways to do this that are 'legitimate'. OEM manufacturers do it all the time with WinPE/SYSPREP. It's just a big hassle and you have to know what you are doing. We did it with an earlier (pre-CloudScale) product that focused on VMware. You could 'bring your own license'. The biggest impediment to this is that there are multiple flavors of Windows / Windows Server that use *different* licensing schemes, so you wind up in a position where you have a perfectly valid Windows Server license, but you can't install it onto an image because of the media they used. But again, as you point out, no good way for Amazon to enforce that you installed a legitimate license. It could someone else's Volume License Key for example.

Microsoft should really fix these kinds of issues.

Put another way, would GoGrid allow me to upload my own custom Windows image (using NT 4.0 or Server 2008 for example) just like Amazon allows EC2 users to run custom AMI's? Of course not.

Yep, if they hold the service provider accountable. Hopefully they will wise up soon. I suspect they will as they try to figure out their own cloud strategy.

There are a lot of other factors that also come into play, like licensing other MS apps/servers that run on top of Windows (sql server, biztalk, sharepoint, exchange), the many different licensing programs available under MS licensing (retail, open, ea, select, spla), and the different VM licenses grants allowed under the higher-end editions of Windows. In short, it's a complicated mess. I'm sure your lawyers can fill you in on the additional details if you're interested.


Yes, it's a mess, which also means an opportunity for people who can help to solve it. A non-trivial task on Windows.


--Randy

Randy Bias, Founder, CloudScale
(877) 636-8589, randyb@cloudscale.net


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Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Define a metric for "secure".

More opportunities to be compromised? Maybe. But better chances of
success?.. That may be true only for non-homogenous systems, and on
certain conditions. In a *homogenous* system every component perhaps
has the same probability of successful compromise. Having N replicas
of the database with exactly the same probability P of compromise does
not change the chances of compromise (N*(1/N)*P, which is "N" times
the probability that the particular replica was chosen multiplied by
the probability of success). It is fair to assume that in a homogenous
system the probability of attack is distributed uniformly (1/N).

For the messages in transit to N destinations to be significantly
easier to compromise than one, N must be really large, if we were to
consider analysis of multiple encryptions of the same message.


Sassa

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Ray,

Quite a few people have desktops and don't need to work at home. Those
that work at home or on the road have laptops and aren't part of the
harnessed cloud. So it isn't an issue. The organization is in the
financial space.

Chuck Wegrzyn

Ray Nugent wrote:
> Hey Chuck,
>
> How do those employees work remotely, from home at night or on
> weekends without their computers? Sounds like this company just shot
> it's productivity in the foot in order to support the IT
> infrastructure. Isn't IT infrastructure (and IT in general) supposed
> to support business productivity?
>
> Ray

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Hey Chuck,

How do those employees work remotely, from home at night or on weekends without their computers? Sounds like this company just shot it's productivity in the foot in order to support the IT infrastructure. Isn't IT infrastructure (and IT in general) supposed to support business productivity?

Ray

Re: Net-centric definition query

Robin,
Sorry I missed this discussion, but here is my answer.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a true sense you're right about the definition of net-centric.
Truth, however, is in the eyes of your target audience. In the DoD,
Homeland Security and Intelligence Community world, net-centric
warfare and net-centric operations are not simply about the act of
being on-line. It's about applying the information you can glean from
being on-line and applying that information to a specific situation.

The Net-Centric Environment is a framework for full human and
technical connectivity and interoperability that allows all DOD users
and mission partners to share the information they need, when they
need it, in a form they can understand and act on with confidence, and
protects information from those who should not have it.
http://www.dtic.mil/futurejointwarfare/concepts/netcentric_jfc.pdf

Network Centric Operations (NCO) involves the development and
employment of mission capability packages that are the embodiment of
the tenets of Network Centric Warfare (NCW) in operations across the
full mission spectrum. These tenets state that a robustly networked
force improves information sharing and collaboration, which enhances
the quality of information, the quality of awareness, and improves
shared situational awareness. This results in enhanced collaboration
and enables self-synchronization improving sustainability and
increasing the speed of command, which ultimately result in
dramatically increased mission effectiveness. …The tenets of NCW
address these means and postulate how they can increase mission
effectiveness.

http://www.mors.org/meetings/oa_nco/oa_definition.htm
Our mission is to facilitate global realization of the benefit
inherent in Network Centric Operations. To that end, we seek to
enable continuously increasing levels of interoperability across the
spectrum of joint, interagency, intergovernmental, and multinational
industrial and commercial operations. We will execute this mission in
good faith as a global organization with membership open to all
enterprises in quest of applying the vast potential of network centric
technology to the operational challenges faced by our nations and
their citizens.

https://www.ncoic.org/about/mission_vision/


So while being connected is a requirement for net-centricity, that in
itself is not sufficient to realize the possible benefits of net-
centric operations. In some ways, our approach is to take internet
connectivity as a given. Our focus is to ascertain and solve the
barriers associated with realizing the results of internet
connectivity.


On Jul 2, 12:15 pm, Stuart Charlton <stuartcharl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I was to hear "Network-Centricity", I certainly would lean in the
> former definition -- though I think the latest term is "Net-Centric
> Operations" instead of warfare. There is quite a bit of research,
> background, and discussion on the concept, and it's a powerful one.
> "Power to the Edge" was a follow-on concept by the same authors of the
> NCW book, by the way, and I think starts to draw connections to cloud
> computing and software as a service.
>
> One of the ways to relate cloud computing and NCW is to think of the
> services that are required to support NCW, and this is where cloud
> computing comes in. It has a different user experience,
> architecture, and acquisition model than traditional technology systems.
>
> A great video, by Paul Strassmann, a former DoD CIO, on "Google as a
> Model for the Systems Architecture of the Future" is here:http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6682253938984655269
>
> Referring to cloud computing as "internet-centric" without the
> surrounding organizational context tells me nothing. It could mean
> "you should have a web site", which is very 90's. It could mean "all
> your computers should be on the Internet", which is both absurd and
> wrong anyway. It could mean "you should have no computers on site,
> just dumb terminals", which is also absurd, misses the notion of
> "private clouds", and is arguably a caricature of the "cloud computing
> is the new outsourcing" argument.
>
> Cheers
> Stu
>
> On 2-Jul-08, at 7:31 AM,RobinLobb wrote:
>
>
>
> > I've recently seen a new use of the term "net-centric". It's
> > commonly understood to mean network-centric and specifically, it
> > means focusing applied and theoritical concepts of network
> > organization to an area of consideration.
>
> > For instance, in the case of the military they have something called
> > net-centric warfare which means that they apply innovative network
> > organizational principles to their strategy, tactics, culture, and
> > organizational architecture. It is about enabling better
> > exploitation of information and generally ICTs. It is meant to
> > achieve a comprehensive and optimally coordinated utilization of a
> > nation's, corporation's or coalition's formal and informal assets to
> > achieve at least temporarily shared objectives.
>
> > In the case of cloud computing it seems to refer to Internet-
> > centric. If it is about the internet then it makes sense. Though
> > there is some overlap with the conventional usage of the term. I
> > don't know this it is particularly problematic. It is certainly
> > confusing to those of us using the other usage of the term. I am
> > however interested in confirming the distinct deifnition that I am
> > thinking cloud computing is now assigning this term. Truth is, cloud
> > computing has simply revealed this alternate usage to me and it may
> > be the case that it's been used alternately for a very long time.
> > But I do need to know if it is simply a new word jumble blending two
> > terms or something more meaningful. Please help.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> >Robin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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RE: VM configuration methodologies (was Re: EC2 alternatives)

>
> On Jul 8, 2008, at 7:41 PM, PeterNic wrote:
> > Moving VM images is not the best thing do -- it is probably
> the worst.
> Right. And relatively opaque.
>
> > Similar effects can be achieved with Puppet and derivatives -- but I
> > expect those will end up being fragile, as a lot of things have to
> > happen just right and multiple platforms (see elsewhere my
> admonitions
> > about the level of abstraction on which we manage things).

Ah Puppet isn't fragile and use Puppet quite a bit. While not perfect and
does have some bugs to work out. It works and works VERY well.

IMHO is much better than using pre-built images. With Puppet you can mix
and match a setup to be exactly what is specified. With images it's not as
simple, nor is keeping them updated.

-L
--
Larry Ludwig
Empowering Media
1-866-792-0489 x600
Fully Managed VPSes
http://www.hostcube.com/


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Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Marc,

I agree there are a class of problems where it isn't the data that is
critical but the analysis. That would cover your usage, that of most
physic experiments, protein folding etc. I think what it comes down to
is how easy it is to extract important value from the data.

Chuck Wegrzyn


Marc Evans wrote:
> I could debate how "slight" the volume of data is that I could put in
> the cloud without concern. For example, I collect petabytes worth of
> SPAM and malware on the Internet. It makes a lot of sense for me to
> leave it in-the-cloud in the RAW form. The data that I derive from that
> RAW collection is what has value to me, and requires somewhat more
> careful security considerations.
>
> Likewise, I believe the many companies that crawl the web collecting
> copies of sites for a variety of uses could store that raw data in the
> cloud with little/no risk. Like myself, their derived data resulting
> from whatever analysis/computations they perform is what they may need
> to protect.
>
> I will grant you that the examples above are not what I believe that you
> or most others discussing data security in the cloud are pondering. It
> does however serve as examples of data that is likely to be in the cloud
> today.
>
> - Marc

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

I could debate how "slight" the volume of data is that I could put in
the cloud without concern. For example, I collect petabytes worth of
SPAM and malware on the Internet. It makes a lot of sense for me to
leave it in-the-cloud in the RAW form. The data that I derive from that
RAW collection is what has value to me, and requires somewhat more
careful security considerations.

Likewise, I believe the many companies that crawl the web collecting
copies of sites for a variety of uses could store that raw data in the
cloud with little/no risk. Like myself, their derived data resulting
from whatever analysis/computations they perform is what they may need
to protect.

I will grant you that the examples above are not what I believe that you
or most others discussing data security in the cloud are pondering. It
does however serve as examples of data that is likely to be in the cloud
today.

- Marc

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

I can't speak for Ray but I've run into the same situation. Most of the
customers I have all host their own systems. In fact in one particular
case they have all their employees leave their computers on at night and
harness them as their "cloud". It works very well!

Their data never leaves the building and they harness the power of all
their desktop computers to do the equivalent.


Chuck Wegrzyn

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Exactly! That is the point I was making in the comments in the thread
"Issues of data in the cloud"...there is just little way any responsible
firm would do that for critical data. There might be some data that they
would be willing to offload but it has to be slight.

Chuck Wegrzyn


Jim Peters wrote:
> Geez, I just don't get this ... the guys I work with would never
> consider putting data into the hands of a 3rd party, no matter who the
> 3rd party was. I for one cannot imagine ever trusting Google to not be
> reading my email, uninteresting as that would be ...

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

If your potential customer bought that line they are fools. The data in
the cloud isn't MORE secure, it can't be. There are more people involved
in the systems and hence more opportunities for the data to be compromised.

Chuck Wegrzyn

Ray Nugent wrote:
> I met with a potential customer today and the requisite data security
> questions started to rain down. I asked them how secure the data in
> their data center was and then produced a 2 gig USB drive from my
> pocket and dropped it on the table. It got kind of quiet for a bit and
> then the discussion turned to how much MORE secure data would be in a
> cloud with more control over who has physical access to the data.
> Great discussion though...
>
> Ray

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Hi Jim,

Thanks for replying.

On Jul 9, 9:05 pm, "Jim Peters" wrote:
> Geez, I just don't get this ... the guys I work with would never consider
> putting data into the hands of a 3rd party, no matter who the 3rd party was.

Interesting. Do these guys prefer to colo their servers? Or do they
host from within a building/location that they physically control,
100%?

> I for one cannot imagine ever trusting Google to not be reading my email,
> uninteresting as that would be ...

But even so, you still use Gmail -- is that a case where the risks
associated with the cloud are outweighed by the benefits?


Wednesday, July 9, 2008

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Hello,

Comment's in-line below:

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Jim Peters wrote:
Geez, I just don't get this ... the guys I work with would never consider putting data into the hands of a 3rd party, no matter who the 3rd party was.

I think that cloud computing makes sense in some situations and doesn't make sense in other situations. If the data is really sensitive than making use of a 3rd parties cloud may not make sense, but there are some situations where a lot of money can be saved by not having to implement a data center and cloud. If the user just needs the computational power once every six months and has confidence that the 3rd party will keep the data safe than it probably makes sense to use the third parties cloud. If the user needs the cloud every day and the data is classified than it may make sense for the user to build their own cloud.
Anyway, I think there is a spectrum of when it makes sense to make use of a 3rd parties cloud computer and when it makes sense to build a private system. I would hope these are things a good consultant would walk through with a user.

--
Thanks,

Ron Price
801.560.2305
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Re: EC2 alternatives

Michael,

At the risk of boring the list with the intricacies of Microsoft licensing, I'll try to give you some brief answers inline...

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 3:08 PM, Michael Sheehan wrote:

Just to jump in here quickly (please educate me). How is this different than using VMWare to install Windows?

It's not. The exact same licensing rules apply to any OS virtualization technology (VMWare, Xen, Hyper-V).
To start answering my own question, I guess that with personal installs, you BYOD (D being Disk/CD/DVD) that has the Windows installer/media on it. I would think that Microsoft might actually want other channels to distribute their OS.

They're not really hurting for distribution channels actually. And with VM images, you don't go through a normal OS install process. You install once when you create the image and then you work with snapshots or clones of that image. Standard Windows server retail licenses don't allow you to run multiple copies using the same CD key. Each VM would need a seperate license.
How do you see it as being unenforceable?

Microsoft holds the service provider (not the customer) accountable for making sure the proper licenses have been purchased. Bring your own license is basicly the honor system. How could Amazon make sure cusomters weren't using stolen/pirated/warez CD keys? It couldn't without checking each Windows OS image before it started it up and even then there's no way for Amazon to know if a CD key is legit or not.

Beyond that, Microsoft requires different licenses depending on how you're using Windows and/or the number of devices or users connecting to the server. Under their service provider licensing, you can get either Authenticated or Unauthenticated processor licenses depending on wheather the application running on the system is accessed by named users or anonymous users (like web visitors). Or you can Client Access Licenses (CALs) for each user or device that will be connecting to the server. That's a lot of detail that Amazon has no interest in getting into for each instance it spins up.

Put another way, would GoGrid allow me to upload my own custom Windows image (using NT 4.0 or Server 2008 for example) just like Amazon allows EC2 users to run custom AMI's? Of course not.

Run the server until you have to activate it and then you supply the appropriate license information. Can't you download trials of Windows Server 2003?

Using unactivated or trial versions of Windows in production is a license violation. Remember that this whole situation is a legal one, not a techincal one. I don't think Amazon's lawyers would let that slide.
We (at GoGrid) have found that a LOT of our customers are installing Windows Cloud Servers simply because Amazon doesn't offer it. I would say about 50% of GoGrid installs are actually with Windows believe it
or not. But we are able to do this because we are a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner.

Most dedicated server hosting companies issue unauthenticated processor licenses for customer boxes/VMs using the Microsoft Service Provider licensing agreement (SPLA), which any MS Partner has access to (gold certified or not).

I strongly suspect you guys are doing the same thing. Your own KB article on MS SQL licensing implies you are doing licensing tracking, paying MS for each license used, and billing customers accordingly. If not, you can expect a knock on your door from MS Licensing or the BSA any day now.

There are a lot of other factors that also come into play, like licensing other MS apps/servers that run on top of Windows (sql server, biztalk, sharepoint, exchange), the many different licensing programs available under MS licensing (retail, open, ea, select, spla), and the different VM licenses grants allowed under the higher-end editions of Windows. In short, it's a complicated mess. I'm sure your lawyers can fill you in on the additional details if you're interested.

- Chris

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Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

Geez, I just don't get this ... the guys I work with would never consider putting data into the hands of a 3rd party, no matter who the 3rd party was. I for one cannot imagine ever trusting Google to not be reading my email, uninteresting as that would be ...

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Ray Nugent wrote:
I met with a potential customer today and the requisite data security questions started to rain down. I asked them how secure the data in their data center was and then produced a 2 gig USB drive from my pocket and dropped it on the table. It got kind of quiet for a bit and then the discussion turned to how much MORE secure data would be in a cloud with more control over who has physical access to the data. Great discussion though...

Ray

Re: Why won't people use clouds: The grey part of the silver lining

I met with a potential customer today and the requisite data security questions started to rain down. I asked them how secure the data in their data center was and then produced a 2 gig USB drive from my pocket and dropped it on the table. It got kind of quiet for a bit and then the discussion turned to how much MORE secure data would be in a cloud with more control over who has physical access to the data. Great discussion though...

Ray


Re: EC2 alternatives

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Randy Bias wrote:
>
> On Jul 7, 2008, at 2:26 AM, Max wrote:
>> I am wondering if there is alternatives to Ec2?
>
> For virtual machines:
>
> GoGrid
> FlexiScale
> Joyent (no API)
> Gridlayer

For virtual machines, you can also take a look at CollabNet CUBiT. It
supports virtualization on different platforms, Windows, Linux and
Solaris. The system can also be used to manage clouds, wherein you can
provision one or more virtual machines from the cloud for defined time
frame. After the specified timeframe the system can be automatically
de-commissioned and such.

It also has the ability to integrate with EC2. IOW, you can provision
EC2 machines from within CUBiT. It also provide Rest based web service
APIs. Using the API the user can provision a host/EC2 node, rebuild
using any OS, reboot the host, etc.
--
Regards,
Bhuvaneswaran A
www.livecipher.com
GPG: 0x7A13E5B0

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Re: VM configuration methodologies (was Re: EC2 alternatives)

On Jul 8, 9:42 pm, Randy Bias <ran...@cloudscale.net> wrote:
>
> Obviously I disagree. :) If it were fragile it wouldn't be in
> production at Google, Stanford, Wesabe, Powerset, and many other
> places.
...
> I haven't read what you said elsewhere about abstraction, but Puppet
> is essentially an abstraction layer, not a brittle scripting language,
> nor a heavyweight XML language, nor proprietary.

Randy, I didn't mean to put down Puppet -- I think it is an excellent
tool and, in fact, we're trying to figure out if there can be some
synergy in using it together with our virtual appliance catalog
concept in AppLogic (still working on that).

On the rest -- copying VM images, we do agree :)

Best regards,
-- Peter

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